Board Thread:False Info and Speculative Discussion/@comment-26601629-20150721193153/@comment-13895380-20150820030614

T Angelus Ballack wrote: 1. a) Dude you misunderstand me, when I say rules don't auto tansfer, I meant. In a VS battle between 2 different universes, absolutely rules that limit a character, like for example say there was a prophecy that the King in Lord of the rings can't be defeated by a man, only a woman, and said king was fighting the hulk. Then you say because the hulk is a man, he can't win. But for the case of an ability between two separate universes. One possesses the power of mind control(in the form of hallucination) and the character from the other universe has shown resistance to this kind of attack, then that ability while it can still be used, would not be considered as effective as it normally is. These are two different cases., If you are indicating that, the ability can't be overcome, then that is essentially a No Limit Fallacy. On what basis do you base the power of the hallucination, what makes you conclude that the DD's are more powerful.

1. b) Even Lydia was able to recover from the hallucination(Even though pain wouldn't have been used since she's not a werewolf), and here we are talking about a drug that induces hallucination to the point of madness, and arrow was overdosed on this. Even on TW, wasn't the nogitsune's illussion broken by willpower.

2. You keep saying, no known weakness. A character does not need to have a weakness to be beaten. I gave an example of this once before, the nogitsune's weakness was to change it, yet if you left it alone in a room with the sentry, hell even the hulk, he'd be blown away, my point, the dread doctors don't need to have a known weakness, we've only seen people try to punch them, how do we know how they'd react if I shot one of them with an RPG., It's like the concept of Originals saying klaus is indestructible except for a stake, yet if i chained him down and used a chainsaw on his head in all the right places or fed him through a wood chipper, would he reform.

3. I also never said arrow could beat wells 1 on 1, cos he cant, he could just stab him before the fight starts( which by the way is what selene would do to the dread doctors, she'd blitz them), you said wells, after getting his speed back could have killed arrow, and I said arrow could also have killed wells when the nanotech took away his speed.

4. Yes Malcolm caught the arrows, as did helena, and the league are able to intercept each others arrow, you know why, because they are master archers, they know where the arrow is going to hit because of their super human accuracy, and helena caught one because she said she'd straight up being praticing and knew arrow was going to kill her, and he always went for the heart, she knew where to catch it from. Deucalion is neither of this things, but he might well be able to catch it. But Arrow has experience fighting against people who can catch his arrows like barry, he can make them explode, use them as a distraction to set up other attacks. Yes Satomi dodges a bullet and here comes the inconsistency of Teen Wolf, having reaction speed to dodge rapid fire bullets puts you at SUPERSONIC speed, lol do you believe anyone in Teen wolf is that fast, that is an outlier. Deucalion is prolly the fastest wolf on teen wolf, and he's only faster than the eye can see at best, to make a leap and call werewolves on Teen wolf supersonic is just funny, bullets Move anywhere from Mach 1 - 3, and to dodge rapid fire, you's need higher reaction speeds to compensate, unless the person shotting squeezes the trigger repeatedly meaning only one direction, so you'd only need to move away from the first bullet's general area, that wouldn't be bullet timing but aim dodging and that is something even humans can do(Aim dodging). And they DD haven't shown any speed feat, maybe because they haven't had to or hey don't have it, we don't know, so it will be wrong to assume they have that kind of speed.

5. Slade's and Oliver's fight always went back and forth, what do you mean he'd have had the chance to kill him, that makes no sense.

You're talking of the second encounter with Oliver right?, Yeah he straight up charged Oliver while they were making conversation, Slammed him against a wall and injected him with some blood clotting thing. But Oliver lost yeah. But the first proper fight they had despite his brute strength Oliver made use of his environment and trick arrows like he always does.

6. Against the 3 DD, I'm firmly sure it could go either way depending on the situation.

Without Knowledge of each Opponent, Oliver could prolly take one down and end up losing.

With Knowledge and Oliver's usual prep, I see this going to Oliver 9 times out of 10. The Only thing I see them using against Oliver that will be bad is invisibility, and even this hasn't been confirmed that they have it, and to combat invisibility, with prep arrow couls use a smoke bomb arrow., There's nothing to indicate the doctor's can see in a smoky environment.

7. Lemme Ask you a few questions,

What would happen if the Doctor's where shot with an explosive arrow, What would happen if the Doctor's were shot with tranquilizers, how would any of their powers help them in this situation. 1. a) Dude, your argument is based on fallacy. Hallucinations can be caused by different things. Being able to overcome a hallucination from a drug does not mean you'll be able to overcome a hallucination from someone who can literally CONTROL the electric impulses of your brain, which is most likely what they're doing. Drugs can wear off. Drugs does not have the same effect on every human being. For simple things such as alcohol, some are way more resistant than others. DD literally control electromagnetism. That's like saying Wolverine can somehow stop Magnito from controlling his body by using will power. NO. Magneto can literally control the metal, as the DD control electromagnetism, and will power doesn't change how much control they have over this very physical (not mental) properties.

1. b) Um, the DD got Liam and Hayden. I'd say they won and were long gone before Lydia recovered. The DD literally just walked through the school while the gang instantaneously got incapacitated. Arrow was overdosed and still able to fight. Heck, the original Count was overdosed and still overcame it. Scott and the gang were immediately downed by it. Even if the Arrow could eventually overcome it, he'd be dead before he realized it was a dream. Nogitsune's illusion =/= DD hallucinations. DD's control is through a physical property that THEY control, not through a fantasy or a drug that a normal humans can survive its overdose.

2. I agree. I'm saying that they have no known weakness, so the only way you're going to beat them is if you're straight up better than them, which Arrow isn't. At this point, I wouldn't be surprised if they could control the the metal weapon and make it malfunction, tbh. JK JK, but yeah, how would they react? I don't know. Neither do you, cause it's never happened. I'm betting they'd survive, however, because we've seen werewolves, kanima, berserkers, werejaguar, etc. survive multiple bullet shots from many different types of guns and survive pretty easily. DD could laugh at punches that would otherwise hurt these creatures, and to top it off, it seems like they're wearing armor. They're visibly wearing armor on their head.

3. Okay.

4. Seriously? You're saying that Malcolm caught it cause of skill alone, and that Deucalion can't although he is way faster than him? Helena didn't have league training. She wasn't even a master archer when she did it; she preferred using a crossbow, actually. We talking bout practice? Practice? Pretty sure Deucalion had tons of practice dodging and catching arrows, as did many other werewolves on the show who were constantly chased by well-trained hunters. What's funny is that Barry caught the arrow EASILY just by his speed and reflex; it should be treated the same for Deucalion. Erica caught it just through speed and reflex and she barely had any training/experience. Again, the average arrow speed is not far off from Arrow's speed, especially considering how much faster Deucalion is.

Hmm, so if Malcom and Helena are not nearly as fast as 300 mph, how did they catch the arrow? I'll tell you. They were fast enough to react to Arrow's trigger fire, not the arrow itself. That being said, Deucalion could react to Arrow's trigger fire with ease.

My biggest problem with Teen Wolf is inconsistency. Remember in 3a, Aiden and Ethan were able to run at the speed of a motorcycle top speed. Anyways, Satomi is one of the oldest werewolves, and even if you don't want to say any other werewolf is that fast, just recognize that dodging someone shooting you is a WAAAY better feat than a simple arrow, which we've seen werewolves do multiple times. Assuming the Demon Wolf is anywhere near close to this reflex time, Arrow couldn't touch him. Oh, and if Satomi's feat was a one time thing, why did the Oni straight up split them in half in 3b? Superhuman reflex time, buddy. They don't even have to be as fast as it. Their reflex time is just that much superior.

Like DD, the Dread Doctors moves in blurs. Sometimes they even "skip" feet ahead of where they were before (laggy mother f*ckers). Malia couldn't even react to the Surgeon injecting Tracey, and the Pathologist very quickly shoved her into the wall.

5. Please rewatch the fight.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQZ5Pmy4_u0

Could have shot Thea in the head, then Oliver. Could have beat the shit out of Oliver if Thea didn't come in multiple times. Literally fought against Thea and Oliver 2v1 and still pretty much came up on top and even could have broken Oliver's arm until Thea hit him with a log. And I'd say Slade should be weaker, having been trapped on the island for so long (in a cell for most of the time, where you can't even exercise much, and definitely have nobody to train with). Do they even feed him? LOL jk jk.

6. Without knowledge, he'd die. With knowledge, he'd still die. We can't have a situation where they get to prepare for things, wtf? Each of them have to have their standard weapons. Cause that's like me saying, with preparation, the DD would easily win. How would we know? We'd just make up new weapons for this new prepared battle? Either way, we still have to go by ONLY what we have seen from both of them so far, or else its fake.

The Dread Doctors could detect Corey, who literally can completely camouflage. It's safe to say that they don't use the visible spectrum, and most likely can see through smoke bombs. Funny thing, I love how Nissa (daughter to RA's freaking Al Ghul) couldn't see Al Sah Him in the smoke that she should be used to, yet Al Sah Him could see her. -_-

7. As I've explained before, kind of hard to be shot with something if you could dodge it. Kind of hard to get impaled if they seemingly have armor (look at the fight scene in the last episode, seemed like Liam was hitting steel, or their bodies are just that freaking hard). No headshots cause they have masks.

Le me ask you some questions:

Can Arrow survive a punch to the skull from any of them? Would he even be able to heal enough to get back up if they kicked him in the back (they definitely have enough power to break his spine). What if Arrow doesn't magically overcome the DD's hallucinations in like 2 seconds, as you're proposing? How can Arrow possibly stop the pathologist holding his head straight while the surgeon injects mercury poison into him? Arrow wouldn't even be able to budge the guy before the surgeon kills him. The geneticist could even hold his arm, or break his arrow if he wanted to.

Arrow is essentially in a situation where any one of the DD could one shot kill him, and he has to kill all of them in one go before they kill him. Verry unlikely.